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Post by P. Marf on Dec 14, 2010 18:35:44 GMT -5
This is exactly what I was trying to get at. Google is a good tool. Maybe a little research is a good thing. www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/7312873.html*In NFL history, 57 men have coached at least 150 games. Fisher is one of only three to coach all of his games with one team and not win a championship. Coincidentally, each of the other two has a .622 winning percentage, compared to Fisher's .551. *There are five active coaches in the NFL who have won Super Bowls. Fisher isn't one of them. There are eight other Super Bowl-winning coaches who have left the NFL in the past five seasons. |
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fischer
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Post by fischer on Dec 14, 2010 19:01:03 GMT -5
that last point actually hurts your argument. It shows that not many active coaches have a championship.
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Post by P. Marf on Dec 14, 2010 19:07:49 GMT -5
How? My argument is that he isn't that great. He hasn't won. People are coming and going, winning SBs, while he is leading teams that don't succeed.
It shows that he should he doesn't have one and how many coaches do have one. It shows that he shouldn't have a job still. SB winning coaches have lost their job and his mediocre resume has kept him his. If you read the article it specifically points out how average he is.
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fischer
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Post by fischer on Dec 14, 2010 19:19:16 GMT -5
I didn't read the article. If the points you highlighted are the best arguments it makes, then its a waste of time.
The last point that you highlighted just shows that Fisher is one of 27 active coaches who doesn't have a Superbowl championship.
I think Fisher is a good coach. I don't think he's the best in the league or that he's the next coming of Vince Lombardi. My point is, you aren't doing a good job of convincing me that he is bad.
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Post by P. Marf on Dec 14, 2010 19:24:07 GMT -5
Well then if you don't want to take the time to read the article then you just don't want to sway from your view point. The stats don't lie. You haven't done a single thing to convince anyone that he is good either by the way.
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fischer
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Post by fischer on Dec 14, 2010 19:28:15 GMT -5
I wasn't trying to convince you he was good. That was finch.
I'm kind of in the middle on this one. Can't decide. You aren't convincing me.
In fact, I just went and read that article... not going to lie, its convincing. You picked the worst two stats to point out, though.
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Post by The River Assassin on Dec 14, 2010 19:28:37 GMT -5
Goodness, did Jeff Fisher run over your puppy or something?
Neither of those stats really have anything to do with what we are talking about. I say Jeff Fisher is a pretty dang good coach that gets the best out of his players. You say he is over rated and probably should have been fired years ago. I guess if you really want to look something up, figure out how many Pro Bowl players Fisher has had over the last 17 years vs. what other teams have had. That would be a pretty good indicator of how good his players have been compared to the rest of the league.
Also, he lead his team to a SB and was less than one yard away from beating one of the best offensive teams the NFL has ever seen. Not that it really means much, but to say the guy is over rated because of a couple random facts is just flat out absurd to me.
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fischer
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Post by fischer on Dec 14, 2010 19:30:25 GMT -5
Oh, and stats do lie.
For instance, you said he only has 6 winning sesaons out of 17. Sounds awful.
You could also say he only has 6 losing seasons out of 17. Sounds pretty danged good.
What is more amazing is that they have finished 8-8 5 times.
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Post by The River Assassin on Dec 14, 2010 19:38:00 GMT -5
I was pretty impressed by that as well, not that it's anything to be proud off, but the same record 5 times is pretty crazy.
As far as the article is concerned it presented nothing that refutes my argument that Jeff Fisher does less with more. Kubiak has twice the football team Fisher has right now, yet they have the same record.
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Post by P. Marf on Dec 14, 2010 20:02:04 GMT -5
Well I was taken off track trying to address part of your argument. And yes the .500 years do seem odd. But his winning percentage either way isn't very good. Whether he has had talent or not something has to be said on either his drafting, talent evaluation, player improvement, and/or coaching in general. Up until this year Wade had winning seasons every year with the Cowboys (granted this year was incredibly bad) and he got canned. I just think many people think he is good because of how long he has been with the one team. On any other team he would have been gone years ago, thus his value would not be that high among everybody. I guess what I am saying is that it can't be his success that is causing people to believe he is good (cause he hasn't had much at all). It has to be just his long tenure with the Titans... which shouldn't be the standard for a good coach.
I don't have anything against him, I was just feeling a debate this evening.
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Post by Ticket Mouse on Dec 14, 2010 20:07:38 GMT -5
I don't know what you guys are talking about but 10 pages about Houston is 9.75 too many. I'm making an executive decision and ending this thread.
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Post by The River Assassin on Dec 14, 2010 20:26:07 GMT -5
Well I was taken off track trying to address part of your argument. And yes the .500 years do seem odd. But his winning percentage either way isn't very good. Whether he has had talent or not something has to be said on either his drafting, talent evaluation, player improvement, and/or coaching in general. Up until this year Wade had winning seasons every year with the Cowboys (granted this year was incredibly bad) and he got canned. I just think many people think he is good because of how long he has been with the one team. On any other team he would have been gone years ago, thus his value would not be that high among everybody. I guess what I am saying is that it can't be his success that is causing people to believe he is good (cause he hasn't had much at all). It has to be just his long tenure with the Titans... which shouldn't be the standard for a good coach. I don't have anything against him, I was just feeling a debate this evening. I wouldn't call coaching a team to the SB "not much at all". If you want to compare him to other NFL coaches compare him to how many coaches have never been to the SB, because I guarantee there are more that haven't than have. Also, maybe the reason he is regarded as a good coach is the exact reason I have been saying. He does more with less than most coaches. He is one of the most respected coaches in the league, I doubt he earned that respect because his owner is too stupid to fire him. The guy is obviously doing something right. |
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fischer
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Post by fischer on Dec 14, 2010 20:26:13 GMT -5
No you arent
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Post by P. Marf on Dec 14, 2010 20:42:18 GMT -5
22 different teams have made the SB since JF has been head coach. Lot of people can say they went. On top of that there have been teams who have been more than once during that time that had different coaches each time. It takes more than a SB appearance over a 16 year span to be great. Wade Phillips is highly respected around the league too.
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Post by Ticket Mouse on Dec 14, 2010 20:44:20 GMT -5
22 different teams have made the SB since JF has been head coach. Lot of people can say they went. On top of that there have been teams who have been more than once during that time that had different coaches each time. It takes more than a SB appearance over a 16 year span to be great. Wade Phillips is highly respected around the league too. Reported to mods. Let's stop this crap. |
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